We need your advice!
Brian and I taught a cooking class here at the Wine School a few months back. We tend to get a lot of praise for these classes, which involve cooking demonstrations by myself and wine pairings by Brian.
Recently, however, a party of five attended and they were, let’s say, less than thrilled. They had expected a full dinner with wine pairings, not a class. And as you’ll see from the emails that I’ve included below, their expectations were, shall we say, a touch less than reasonable.
Read all the juicy details (and add your comments!) after the jump:
The class they purchased was labeled “Corked and Forked: A Cooking Class,” and was featured on our “Cooking Classes” page: The pricing was in line with our other food & wine classes.
Take a look at the emails back and forth, and give your opinion on the matter in the comments. I have changed the name of the gentleman who purchased the seats to “Student X” and another member of the party, who has also been emailing us, to “Father of X”.
I have made one edit due to the length of this post. They mention the cost of the class over and over. They paid $61.99 per seat.
Here are the first two emails I received:
I must say that I attended your wine tasting event and found it very surprisingly quite dissatisfying. From the tiny portions, thimble-like pours, uncomfortable seats, paper plates, plastic forks, using the same glass all night, poorly attired hosts, beer drinking chef, disregard for cleanliness, bad jokes, etc. etc. etc., it left a lot to be desired.
Here is the wine tasting I will be attending this weekend. Note that it is less expensive than yours, and “no” it isn’t a non-profit event. I think you will agree that it offers so much more. It will also feature a chef and a sommelier, but no jokes. The chef will be attired in customary chef’s white garb and the Sommelier in a tuxedo.
Father of X
(He pasted in a menu of what is clearly labeled a “wine tasting dinner,” not a class)
————————–
Hello Keith.
I attended your class this Saturday. I enjoyed the wine, the food and admire your vast knowledge and passion. I was, however, disappointed with the portion size. I felt … my family and I would have received more ample portions. I .. believe more could have been provided. When all was said and done, I’m not sure I even got a full glass of wine? I really felt let down when the other four people in my family complained to me afterwards.
Student X
Okay, obviously they didn’t like our jokes or our laid back style. They didn’t get the irony of having the president of the Wine School drinking a beer–a single beer, over the course of two hours–during the demonstrations. They also didn’t get the idea that, in a cooking class, you get samples of food and wine, not a full meal. That is clear. And I won’t even address the issue of wearing chef whites myself or having Brian wear a tux–it seems too ridiculous to even discuss here.
They also don’t have a clue that to create a unique menu, source local and/or seasonal foods, create four brand new recipes for the class, and then teach the damn thing takes about 10 hours of work–for both Brian and myself! I was a bit insulted by their emails, but I want to make nice. Here is my response:
Student X,
Thank you for your email. Having read it, and another email from a member of your party (see below), I came away with the impression that you had expected more of a wine dinner experience. The event you attended was a cooking class with wine pairings. If that was not clear in the description when you purchased the seats, please let me know.
In Philadelphia, cooking classes (without wine) cost between $40-$70. All these cooking classes follow the same format as ours: a cooking demonstration, and a small taste of the recipe in question. Disposable plates and dinnerware are the norm. As for cooking classes with wine pairings, the average price is above $100 per person: very small portions there, too, are the norm.
I suggest a quick Google search to confirm all this for yourself. You will soon find that not only is portion size in cooking classes pretty standard, but you will also find that our pricing is well below the average. As you probably also know, we are also considered the gold standard for food & wine classes anywhere (not to brag or anything, but we do kick ass.)
Armed with that knowledge, I think I would be best for you –and not myself– to respond to the email below from one of your guests.
Best,
Keith
[Editorial Note: I included the letter from Father of X]
I thought it was a pretty good email that responded to all their concerns, and without insulting anyone. (During class, Father of X asked Brian if it was okay to drink red wine with ice cubes, and Brian responded with incredible patience.)
Sure enough, Student X responded:
Keith,
It was not clear in the description. Again, I was very disappointed in small food amount of food and the thimble like portions of wine.
You used 4 bottles of wine for 16+ people. That doesn’t even allow you to appreciate what you are sampling.
I was very surprised and again, disappointed.
As you suggested, I did go on line and found just the opposite of what you said. If I had a better explanation of the event, I would not have made the purchase.
… I think I should be left with a feeling of satisfaction. But even worse is that I feel I let down the other 4 people in my party.
Student X
By this point, I was getting a little annoyed with X: In my opinion, he was not being honest. If he had actually searched for other food or wine classes would realize that ours prices–on average–are about 20% lower than anywhere else. A similar pattern pops up with his claims about the wine. He and his friends tasted six wines that would cost an average of $30 a glass at a restaurant. Our classes are known for being a great way to try wines that would otherwise be inaccessible.
I didn’t reply right away: I needed to cool down, and I also needed to get ready to leave for Europe. Student X would know this, because he got my “out of office” reply when he sent the last email. Before I could craft a civil reply, I received this email:
Keith,
It’s been well over a week since my last e mail and I haven’t heard a response back from you.
I did some self study on wine tastings as you suggested and came away with a good idea on a typical event. In every instance, the Wine School came up short.
One example, is a wine tasting that is taking place next week. For comparison sake it will include the following:
* Five course meal with ample portions at a medium to high end local restaurant (the head chef of the restaurant will be preparing the meal on sight)
* Five 3 to 3 ½ ounce pours of middle to high end wineJust the wine alone will be in excess of a half bottle per person (25.4 ounces per bottle, that’s 15 – 17.5 ounces per participant, nearly 5 glasses).
When it was all said and done, I don’t think I received a full glass of wine at the Wine School Tasting. And to receive one brussel sprout was rather insulting.
My friend is hosting the pre mentioned event. He works for a wine distributor and has a great amount of knowledge. He has been in the industry for many years.
The chef will also be providing education and has been in the business a very long time (excess of 20 yrs).
When I told my friend about our experience, he said flat out that we were ripped off. Those were his exact words.
I’d ask you to compare the two events and typical tastings in the area. I think you will find the same results that I have found.
That being the case, I would kindly ask for some sort of refund or other means of credit.
Thank you,
Student X
Okay, now it is clear that he is equating a dinner sponsored by a wine distributor with a cooking class. He also seems to be equating the quantity of wine served with the quality of the overall experience. Honestly, how can I point out the clear differences without insulting the man’s intelligence? This is what I came up with:
Student X,
I received both your emails. First of all, you must realize there is a difference between a class held at a school and a tasting event sponsored by a wine distributor. In the former, you are paying for a class, in the later you are paying for a meal.
You made the purchase on the website for The Wine School of Philadelphia, which offers nothing but classes and academic programs. What you purchased was clearly labeled as “Corked and Forked: A Cooking Class”. This was listed not only in bold type, but also on your receipt. There should be no confusion on that point, and no one in eight years has ever made that mistake.
The other issue is price.You attended a class, and the pricing for that class was comparable to any other class of its type. A standard demonstration cooking class will be $40 or over: [Editorial note: I included a link to a cooking school here] . In such a class, you may get a taste of the dish being prepared, but not always. For wine classes, the typical pricing is between $50 and $60. Here is the list of classes from another school: [Editorial Note: I linked to another Wine School here} Once again, such a class would entail a small tasting, like the one you had.
The typical person who comes to our programs and classes is someone who wants to learn something new. You should point out to your friend that you attended a class at the Wine School of Philadelphia. That should suffice, since most wine folks know of our educational programs.
Finally, I have both owned and consulted for wine distributors. There is a huge difference between a sponsored event, which is a marketing device, and a class, which is intended to educate. It’s apples and oranges.
Keith
I really wanted to ask if he thought that by attending driving school he was entitled to a free car? Fortunately, our darling Beth Case told me to cut out that line.
Student X sends back an email right away:
Keith,
You had 5 people that were dissatisfied – that should be enough. I’m willing to bet that if you were to ask the other 12 people that were there, you’d find a similar sentiment/response.
I’m in business also. When I have someone that is dissatisfied, I make sure that I do everything in my power to make sure that their expectations are met.
That’s not just me, that’s everyone that is in business.
I’d expect the same in this circumstance. Wouldn’t you agree?
Student X
To my mind, Student X purchased five seats to a cooking class, then turned around and told his guests that he was taking them to a wine dinner. What am I missing here? If we did not teach the class, or if the class was not up to our standards, I would have no problem in making things right. But we delivered the same high quality we always do, and poured the exact same amount of wine that guests at classes and tastings always get…. for the last eight years!
Readers, what are your thoughts? What should be done here? Should I make Brian wear a tuxedo during wine classes? Perhaps don a monocle and a tastevin? Should I stop drinking beer? Should we take all the fun out of classes and teach them all deadpan? Oh dear!
Comments
18 Responses to “We need your advice!”
Leave a Reply
Online Wine?
Get connected to the Wine School online! From our popular wine rating & review newsletter to our 1/4 million wine-related contacts on Linkedin to our daily "Life at the Wine School" tweets. Its all yours, for free.
Thanks for posting. Takes balls to post something like this.
My opinion? X=Epic Fail
Honestly, who are these people? If Brian ever wears a tuxedo in class, I will drown him. Keith drinks beer???? Shocked! Never!
What class were these idiots in? I want details!
I’ve been to a couple of your wine classes and a smackdown and have never felt they were lacking in food or drink. I’m not sure though what I might have expected based on the description if I had never been to this type of event before. But I do know if I had questions I would certainly have called for more details before booking.
He mentions there were 12 other people in the class. Have you contacted them to get feedback on the class?
I guess what I would suggest to avoid this in the future is do what everyone else has to do…dumb it down to your lowest common denominator. Someone made a fuss over the portions…change the description to mention specifically that this is a cooking class not a wine dinner and they will be receiving portions or tastings to enhance the class. This way you avoid this in the future.
Got to hand it to you though…my head would have exploded half-way through that exchange if I were you.
Keith,
You, Brian and the rest of your staff have always provided an incredible amount of knowledge to all of your students. You always take the time after each class to make sure all questions are answered and that everyone is happy at the end of the night.
It’s clear that someone was expecting a lot more than what you were offering. Maybe they did not appreciate the quality of the wines that were poured? Maybe they did not consider that this was a “class”? Maybe they did lead the others into this with the expectation of a dinner?
Keep doing what you are doing. I’m sure you would have heard from many more people if they felt you were not being fair in what you provide.
I feel your pain and frustration, but in my opinion, your actions made the whole thing worse. You blew it.
X is a bozo, no doubt. But the minute that person complained, you should have refunded that person’s money, made it clear that your school may not be the place for him or her in the future, and moved on. X would have accepted the money and would go away with a positive perception of you and your school. Instead you fanned the flames. You went round and round in email, just egging X on. You fed the troll. Now you’re posting it on your blog for all the world to see? Bad move, in my opinion. Now everyone in the world can see a demonstration of how you handled this mess.
My respectful suggestion? Refund X’s money, remove this blog post and comments, and move on. Make it very clear to all attendees what they’ll be receiving in the future and ensure this sort of thing never happens again.
Good luck to you.
Anyone who entertains the idea of ice cubes in a glass of red wine is a clear candidate for the Foundations course!
For the record, we would pay just to see Brian in a tux and monocle.
I personally think you should wear a dress or maybe even a tube top and a short skirt. I don’t know Brian.
Keith, I do admire you for posting this. I didn’t read the whole thing as I’m too ADD. But it was clear to me early on that you both want to be right but why bother? So, if i were you’d I’d nip it or try to assuage him and then nip it.
Going on the premise that one dissatisfied customer tells 6x as many people as one satisfied customer (some dumb factoid I read somewhere in some marketing drivel), I personally would go back to him and say that I’m sorry it didn’t meet his expectation and
offer him a partial refund or a discount on a future class that he’ll probably never take anyway.
Barb
I am just learning about your programs, and I am considering taking a class… Included in your FAQ, I believe is a section on whether or not one should have dinner before, or after a class. The answer was that either before or after is fine… and there was no indication that there were any exceptions, such as classes serving dinner. Seemed clear to me.
Unfortunately, while my first instinct would also be to explain and persuade (since you are correct), upon further consideration, I have to agree with Dale Cruse. Additionally, adding a line to FAQs or the description of the event that as a class, this involves tastings of both wine and food, not full servings of each, would likely prevent this from happening in the future.
Keith,
There’s never much point in getting into an ongoing debate with someone like this. Would’ve been better to offer half or all his money back and simply walk away. At this point, you need to decide if Student X is an influential — does he have a wide audience online or elsewhere. If so, then apologize for his misunderstanding of the class and refund half his money without any further commentary. If not, you’ve been more than patient in your responses so I’d recommend ignoring the guy at this point and moving on…and remove the blog from the website. In other words, just put it all behind you. (And don’t change a thing if it’s been working for you.)
This is taking too much out of you (time and emotion). Love the candor as always though. You sure are passionate about your operation!
You’ve got great advice above. Give the guys their money back, and then put it behind you.
More importantly there are a load of people out there who know your operation and its style, and keep coming back for more.
On the constructive side, it is always worth looking for improvement – and I know you do. Feedback forms for these events would allow you to both improve and give you a sense for the validity of such a reaction in the future.
Most important, you’ve built a great organization in just a few years. Don’t let the outliers pull you down!
I worked at a kitchen store that does cooking classes and we would run into this problem from time to time as well, people who paid for a cooking class and complained they didn’t get enough food (even though, compared to other cooking classes the amount of food served, for the price offered, was exceptional and above standard imho). When someone goes to a cooking class at a kitchen store and makes the mistake of assuming they are going to a restaurant there isn’t much you can do to educate them of the error of their ways.
The simple fact of it is Student and Father X here both had expectations radically different than what the Wine School could have ever possibly met, and are most likely very used to complaining until they get their way from the service industry (I would wager that they’re also lousy tippers and sent complaining e-mails or talked to the manager after a vast majority of their meals, most likely for not being given ice cubes with their wine).
However, it’s up to you to decide how the Wine School’s customer service policy would deal with something like this. At the store where I worked, if someone complained enough we would give them some money back or a discount to another class, a classy way of saying “we didn’t make a mistake but we don’t want to deal with you.” Certainly here you’ve already gone pretty far in the opposite direction, customer-service wise, by publishing all this. You may get some cheerleading and help establish the School’s identity as “the customer isn’t always right,” which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But I would say you should do something for these people by way of apology for any confusion, just to settle it all. Maybe offer a free foundation class to the father for his troubles, or send the student a bottle of wine with a gift certificate to KFC.
i’ve been thinking about this all day. although i want to agree with dale in that you fueled the fire, i think it is really student x that did. at any point did he ask you to rectify the situation? or did he just express his disappointment over and over again? i think that he should be clear about why he emailed you to begin with. does he want a refund? or just want you to acknowledge his complaint? my husband is in the restaurant business and gets complaints on occasion. it is usually someone who just wants to show that they are right and you are wrong. at a point you have to stand to ground for what you believe in and the product you gave them.
I attended a wine tasting in Philadelphia, a wine and food pairing class, also in Philly (Many years ago) and recently a wine tasting at the Williamsburg Winery in Virginia. They were all different in that the wine tasting just included a variety of wine with a little food like cheese and crackers and fruit, the food and wine pairing class was very laid back, no tux, no whites, just people mingling and trying to learn what wine goes well with what food…etc.
Personally, I like a relaxed environment much better. I think this guy was trying to impress his party, trying to be fancy as they probably discuss wine at length and now it was his turn to show off. He should have done his research for exactly what he was looking for.
I will have to look into your classes next time I’m in Philly–I have so much to learn. Great website!
You can not make everyone happy, especially in Philly. It is not your fault that they can not comprehend English.
Please, please do not be anything but who you are. I loved your class, learned 1000% more than I knew about wine (didn’t know too much) but, most importantly was entertained and left every class in love with life and good wine.
I will definitely take another class and hope to make the trip to France with you one day. Cathy
[...] The original post and the comments are right here: The Student X Letters [...]
Well, I think you should return all their money and erect a statue in their honor in the quad down at wine school. They have a point – they wanted a full bottle of wine and full dinner served on white linen and by servers in white gloves. Oh – and valet parking. Reasonable expectation given what they saw when they walked in.
Seriously – are these people for real? I have taken lots of classes with Keith and others on his team. They have all been worth the money and met my expectations. I don’t think the “X” family had any expectations – then merely had the chutzpah to complain and see what would come of it.